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Hi everyone. My name is alexia Jarvis. I am a current H CPL employee. I worked at the freemen library down in clear lake and it's the best place on earth. And today I have the honour to interview an H CPL retiree. Bill Jarvis. And if our

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names sound very similar it's because he is my father. So hi dad. So hello darling. Sorry. They hide all your fans. Yes. Hello. All present future. Okay. So we're gonna go through some personal questions first about your personal life and your history and things like that.

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And for me it kind of feels like I have advanced readers copy of this interview because I know the answers to a lot of these questions already. Uh So let's start with, Did you grow up in Houston dad? And if not what brought you here? Okay.

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I did not. I am Canadian born and raised and moved to Houston just over 25 years ago now for my job at Harris County Public Library. I I have never been a public services library and I've always been behind the scenes library and working in the

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technical services department. They do ordering catalog, being physical process, they maintaining catalogs and that sort of thing. So um There was an opportunity here. And so we moved here in 1995. You were very young. Yes, I was I was six. A little baby. Um Well, so

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where you're from is more interesting than just Canada. You grew up in a very beautiful part of the world that most people would kill to live in. I'm sure. Yes. I grew up on the little town right out of Quebec for my border. So the scenery

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sea of New England is the scenery that I grew up with in Canada. Quite literally the house that you can see out of the front the hill you can see out of the front windows from my house. We're in Vermont. Um So we were literally on

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the border. Um And it is it's beautiful fall especially yes with the scenery and the voltage. So but I also lived in um Alberta and uh in Burlington Ontario and worked in a couple of libraries in the Toronto suburbs. So I've been around. Yes you have.

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Okay. And what did you think that you were going to be when you were growing up and you're a little baby bill. Yeah actually when I was Yeah in the 1960s there was a T. V. show called Perry Mason and he was a lawyer who you

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know it was a crack in the courtroom. He always won. His case is I think he may have lost one just because they had to you know give him a perfect record. But so as a kid I wanted to be a lawyer. Um But I think

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it was around 8th grade I um high school english teacher slash school librarian. What we involved the school library and very quickly after that that was just my focused there became I'm going to be a librarian and it never changed after that. So it took a

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while to get there. But need, I didn't, I spent 36 years in depression. So well I remember you telling me a story, a little anecdote how you used to drive Grammy crazy because you would organize your socks and how that can be informed what kind of

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library. And you were going to. Yeah. Yeah. I'll say I was born a cataloger because everything in my room with my stuff had to be just so you know the clothes in my drawers had to be organized a certain way that clothes in my closet had

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to be organized a certain way. And it used to even the way he chose my clothes when I was young as in, he was in the top of the pile, it was the next thing to wear. Um even if they didn't match was source of frustration

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too. My mother. Yes. But I evolved, it's served you well in your career. So there you go. Yeah. Okay. And do you have any memories of visiting a library as a child? Well, I don't, I grew up in a very small town. Um there were actually

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three little communities that basically bordered on each other in the total population was maybe 5000 people. So it was a very small community. So my little school library was actually the main library had easy access to and use. But the town that I grew up in

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actually has a very interesting Little Library. Uh it opened in early 20th century I think you know, one or something. But it was actually built by a private family and it straddles the Canada us border. Um So it's a very beautiful little building is called the

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Haskell Free Library. They have a very good website. So anybody who wants to google Haskell free library and see um it's had a very interesting history. Um It's often called the the only library in Canada with no front door because the entrance is actually in Vermont

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and it's the only library in the United States with no books because these acts are actually in Canada because the border just literally go through the building. But I just looked this morning, they are currently closed because of the issue with poet and that the border

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between Canada, the United States is closed to non essential traffic. So because if you're Canadian, you have to go into the United States to enter and if you're american you can enter but then you'd have to go into Canada technically. So they have to remain closed.

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Wow, beautiful little library. Yeah, I remember having a favorite book as a kid. I do and I think you actually have it now. It was a book called The Big Black Horse and it was actually a child's a pictorial kind of picture book adaptation of walter

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Farley's the Black stallion. Um and it's actually adapted by walter Farley himself to Children, but um book is actually mended and battered and bruised and it's just still the, but 60 years later, that book is still still around. And uh that's the one book that I

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remember reading over and over and over again. Well, I remember when I was young, I was obsessed with horses and I read lots of fiction books about horses. I read lots of non fiction books about horses, so I guess I come by it honestly, even though

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neither one of us has spent much time on horseback, Well, my personal experience with horses growing up was not, I was positive, but the book was fun. Were you taken hostage by a horse? A runaway horse? Yes. Long story that I survived with several moments along

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the way as it was galloping away with me, holding on for your life to the horn on the saddle. Um and the ride finally ended as a ran full gallop into the bar gary fence. Um and as I saw that coming, I was sure I was

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going to go head over heels over the horse's head in into the barn yard, but I did not. Well, one of my favorite memories is when we went down to uh was it corpus or was it south padre? Yeah, yeah. Uh so we, we went horseback

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riding on the beach and might, they asked you if you had much experience with horses and you said the slower the better and they run out an enormous shire workhorse, which is truly massive and I just remember you on this giant horse. It was almost like

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your legs were sticking straight off the sides. They were yeah. And the young lady who had to help me get up into the saddle because it was so high, she finally just sold at her, Yeah, put her shoulder underneath me and shoved me up into the

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saddle. He was indeed a dose of horse because unless the hand who was leading the group was in front of him, he wasn't going to move for anybody, no danger of getting runaway goes on him. Yes, remember that. Okay. And then so it's a follow up.

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Do you have, do you remember a favorite book as a teenager? You know, I didn't really have a favorite book as a teenager as a teenage boy read the hardy Boy, both kind of mandatory back then. Um I know the series is still around but I

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just I read a lot almost entirely efficient in those days and in it wasn't even a particular type of book that I liked the best. I just, I just always was reading something um now it's almost exclusively mysteries and kind of thriller, legal thrillers, that sort

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of thing. But um it means it was kind of whatever I whatever came across my vision um and tweet my interest in whatever way. So just about anything, a healthy approach, I always try not to limit myself to certain genres or even to fiction or nonfiction.

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I try to read widely. So I think that's good. Learn from the best. Okay, so now we're going to get into some library related questions about your time at Harris County Public Library. And so before we get started with that, can you tell everyone what your

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job title was Actually? When I was hired in 1995 my job title was catalog library. And I was in charge of the the cataloguing department. Getting the in those days we had a cd wrong catalog as opposed to the online catalogue we have now. But even

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then that's quite advanced as opposed to the old card catalog. So it was you know the physical cataloging of of the materials of physical processing. I was over that group of people um When the then head of technical services retired and I think it was 2001,

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I actually promoted to that position. And so from then until I retired in 2016 I was the head of the entire Technical services department which includes can't logging but also the acquisitions department, ordering, receiving, paying for library materials and and the fiscal processing. So okay. Always

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worked behind the scenes. Yeah, because of that, a lot of people who use libraries as patrons don't necessarily um they're not aware of the behind the scenes workings of a library and its collection and things like that. So you kinda can kind of break down like

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day today. Um What your job, like how what you did impacted the patron experience in the library? Well, I, you know many people when you go into the grocery store, you know, everything you want is on the shelf. Uh He thinks about the process necessarily of

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how you know that kind of who ended up on the shelf. Uh maybe a little more so because they might see an 18 wheeler backed up to the loading dock and they see the, you know, store staff stocking shelves and so on. Um But I think

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a lot of people just come into libraries and don't give it any thought. It's like the books, the Dvds, whatever they want if they're on the shelf and they take it and go home and enjoy it. But the process in libraries is very similar to stores.

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Um You know, there's typically a group of people who decide what is going to be ordered. Um And then there's it becomes the um responsibility of the acquisitions part of technical services to actually order those materials, receive them. Um You pay the bills for them, then

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they have to be catalogued. Uh And that's now is entering all that information into the catalog, patrons walk up to a terminal and they search for, you know, whatever they're looking for by subject by author, by title, whatever. Um So the cataloging staff is responsible for

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entering all that information into the catalog. And there is a very defined format because computers have to know where to look for something to retrieve that piece of information. So there's a very rigid, extensive coding system that, you know, catalog has become very familiar with. Uh

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And then of course the catalog has to be maintained to removing materials that are being withdrawn or discarded or whatever. And then there's the physical processing the books come in with just a paper jacket, like you buy them at the bookstore. And you know, those covers

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have to be put on, the covers, glued the labels stuck on and so on. So there's a a whole group of people who do that. It has become increasingly common in libraries Over the last probably 30 years to outsource a lot of that. Um Those processes

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at least the physical processing in the cataloguing um and Harris County did that well, as long as I worked there, that that process was already in place at Harris County. So a lot of the materials that were received, we're already catalogued and processed and ready to,

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you know, go out into circulation. But but somebody still had to decide what to order and had to order it. So that's and that all goes on behind the scenes. And then yeah, the books are shipped off to the branch libraries and there they are, customers

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have access to them and take them home. And even though it's behind the scenes thing. And uh lot of people, you know, a lot of people in the library profession uh used to I think less so now sort of downplayed the role of technical services because

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we weren't a frontline activity. But every now and then I would just kind of throw out the um comment when somebody was going on, you know, public services library. And it's like, well, you know, if my department doesn't do their job, you can't do your job

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at all. Um and less true now with digital formats, but you know, when it was mostly physical formats, I still stand by that statement because and and now, even with the online catalogue, if you know, if the cataloger doesn't put the information incorrectly in the correct

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place and so on. Yeah, the materials lost too. Those other than somebody who's just gone to the shelves and started browsing a specific section. So I think technical services plays a very important role in the overall library experience. Even though public, the public don't realize it.

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You are the unsung heroes. Yeah, we'll go with that. You're a lot of heavy lifting and you know, serving the public are working in a library. It's not one department is more important than the other, we're all parts of a machine working together as a team

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to serve our patrons and communities. So I think that's becoming more and more true as the boundaries between certain areas start to blur if you will in the library field, the originally defined, um, roles are becoming less rigidly defined. And I think that's a good thing.

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Yes, I'm all about teamwork and everyone's sharing responsibility. So I think it's great. Um, so how did you, how did you hear about the job at Harris County when you were living in Canada? It's not really on, it wouldn't be on most people's radar since the

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international. It was, it was an interesting uh, way that I found out about the job we had already decided as a family that we were going to move, you know, to the United States. And since you know, your aunt um lived here, it seems like the

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best place to move because we would know somebody. So um, there was, I don't know if it's still around, but there was a publication called library Hotline and it was just a eight page, like you know, 11 x 17 paper folded in half. But it was

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uh about hot topics in librarian ship. And there was always a, yeah, a jobs classified section if you will jobs available. And I was on the routing list for it at the library I was working at by it. I was way down, I usually saw the

00:17:53.640 - 00:18:10.560

Library hotlines when they were like two or 3 months old and one day this landed on my desk caught this issue and it was like that week's issue and I don't know honestly, I mean there were people who knew that I was further up on the

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routing list who probably knew I was looking. So I don't know if somebody saw the job and thought oh this needs to pull but it landed on my desk and the job Harris County Library, the catalog librarian job was the job posting was there. So I

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applied and the rest is history. Nice. And back in those days they couldn't, you didn't do what we're doing now. Like virtual job interviews. You actually get yourself down here to Houston and then get yourself back up to Canada. Indeed, yes, it was like a three

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or 4 day trip while by the time I left and interviewed and went back to Canada again waiting to hear. So yes, the, you know, the idea of doing at least pre screening through even through telephone interviews didn't exist at least in Harris County back in

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those days. I don't know about other libraries, but typically it was face to face interview, you know, first, first and only. Um So yeah, it was, it was a bigger deal to be interviewed for the job from Canada than you. Sorry, what time of year was

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your interview here? Do you recall july, You're like, Oh, so you can be 95, excuse me somewhere and you still thought this is a great place. Yeah, I don't remember the heat particularly. It must have been hot, but I don't remember it particularly. Um so but

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yeah, it was in July and I started the job in September of 1995. Yeah and that really changed the course of our family history. Uh um And so how long did you work for Harris County Public Library? 21 years. In a few months. I retired at

00:20:04.870 - 00:20:26.380

the end of December 2016 and I had my 21 years and in September of 2016. So um Yeah, I said I was in the library profession for 36 years. Um I worked at three libraries in Canada Um in the 1st 11 years. Uh you know for

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15 years and then the last 21 years we're all here in Harris County. So it's um It was a it was a good run, as I say yes and you just hit your fourth-year retirement I guess so I can't believe so at the end of 2020

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was four years. Yeah, as I'm like so many retirees now, it's like I get up in the morning I think and I used to go to work every morning, how did I do that? Okay and uh kind of a broad question, what is or was your

00:20:59.640 - 00:21:19.000

favorite thing about the library? Maybe not necessarily Harris County public library, but if there's something in particular that you liked about Harris County or just as a library as an institution, what do you? Um Well, library as an institution, I think the fact that especially public

00:21:19.000 - 00:21:45.430

libraries because I did work in my undergraduate college library for four years before I actually went to graduate school. Um But especially in public libraries it's the what what we offer to such a wide range of people. And you have many view libraries especially those who

00:21:45.430 - 00:22:06.070

work in libraries as an essential service. And you know, I I I agree with it, it it may not be essential in the sense of fire department or police department but in terms of community um libraries are an essential service and I have always been proud

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of the fact that public libraries are always there. Um You know their doors are open. They are for the most part free to everyone and there are so many people who would not have access to a huge um number of resources if it weren't for what

00:22:28.930 - 00:22:46.060

libraries offer. And there are a lot of academic libraries who opened their doors to the general public as well. I mean I you know I know that is increasingly so so um in different kinds of collections and services and resources available but still it's an important

00:22:46.940 - 00:23:06.560

an indispensable part of Yes libraries are and will continue to be. Yes, I absolutely agree. Go Daddy. Okay. And do you recall what Harris County Public library was like when you first started working there and I know your perception of it was a little different because

00:23:06.560 - 00:23:32.270

you were at administration behind the scenes. But from that perspective did you kind of changing over the years? And how did how did you, how did it feel? Um 1995 when I started with Harris County, uh the level of automation was primitive, right? The library automation

00:23:32.270 - 00:23:54.790

really became a serious um undertaking in the 19 eighties really. So 1995 wasn't that far into the process of automation. So the library um there was a group at that point um called Jalan, the Houston area library automation network, I think it was and the main

00:23:54.790 - 00:24:21.920

computer resided at Houston Public libraries Central um central library, but many libraries in the area of Harris County uh public being one of them use that computer. So, and then basically the only service that was provided to that computer was the circulation system. Um And as

00:24:21.920 - 00:24:39.550

I said at that point, the the library catalogue was a cd rom um which is now old technology, but it was basically a disk, like a cD or DVD. And the data was the catalog data was encoded on it. But yeah, we only got a full

00:24:39.550 - 00:25:01.210

update to the catalog once a year. And I think we got quarterly updates with the materials added in that period. So the catalog was never current. It couldn't be current and I don't know honestly if any of the branches still had card catalogs at that point.

00:25:01.220 - 00:25:25.100

I know we were not actually distributing cards, you know like catalog cards to the branches. Um and in 1996 the library got there first automation automated system that was their own Harris county. And um so the migration to that system was a big job and I'm

00:25:25.110 - 00:25:46.280

sorry to cut in. Wasn't that what mom was? Yes. Yes. My mom was also a librarian and she was helping with the automate automation of Harris County public library. It was the dynamics system and mom actually worked for Dynex the company um as opposed to the

00:25:46.280 - 00:26:08.460

library. But yes and then we went through various migrations to other Softwares but and it became more and more extensive you know what the software was and could do um So the you know what what customers and staff have access to now when they sit down

00:26:08.460 - 00:26:34.600

at a terminal in the library or even remotely you know from home. Um That didn't exist. When I first I started working. It was 13 years of dying. I remember I was the cataloguing department and the responsibility for um You can people who had motive at

00:26:34.600 - 00:26:59.460

that point. Most people from home with you had remote home and dialogue telephone line, whatever. The remote service. Once in the library had remote dialogue access service. Yeah. Profile here. Um your career and your king now. So um I am the assistant vibrate at a time.

00:27:00.640 - 00:27:24.300

Did a lot of phone calls aprons county and eating have getting set up on there dial up access but then it was definitely going to the library and even then have access to see with available. Remember the key place holes. It's been so long we have

00:27:24.300 - 00:27:52.220

been able to hold the line. Forgotten. That started. Yeah, changed monumentally. You know in the You know in the 20 years that were in Harris County the evolution of the library in general and the access to library collections and resources changed. Yes, here's yes it's always

00:27:52.220 - 00:28:10.320

crazy to me how quickly technology changes and we really see that in the library. Um It's just crazy. Um Okay well so that you can actually preemptively answered the next question which is about do you remember when libraries changed? And when was the last time your

00:28:10.320 - 00:28:29.070

library had a card catalog? So since skip that one because you're too ancient. I can take a remember that. I worked at a log that's left library and number in Canada. That was first library Professional job I had after law libraries gold and I was there

00:28:29.070 - 00:28:49.850

from 1980 to 1986. That was the last library I ever worked at that had an active part catalog. And you were cataloging and technical services there as well. Yes I was working I had to work public services will be there. Um um Reference desk. But yeah,

00:28:49.860 - 00:29:22.270

catalog, technical cooking ordering in processing there as well. But in 1980s was when the automation library processes really came the major their companies and their own job was biographies would contracted them to convert. There is a card catalog data into little format catalog catalog software. So

00:29:22.640 - 00:29:50.500

um that were in my mind desperate, biggest changed in earth after that. It was all was movement through different formats of materials. Um You know I went through from pretty much physical book, you you know audio that's BHS and then to the Dvds and Cd um

00:29:50.510 - 00:30:11.620

is all four of those at the same time. They all have different processing cataloging requirements difficult. That Yeah the last five years 15 A huge change. 1235 years. Mhm. Well I think even when um I was young when we first moved here and we used to

00:30:11.620 - 00:30:37.160

go to the old Freeman Library. The first thing that I remember, I remember very clearly looking through and checking out um hank the cow dog books on audio cassette, a little little cassette tapes and the book, you remember that? Yeah. And now we of course don't

00:30:37.160 - 00:31:01.110

have any um miss their steps and R. S. T. V. And uh that's yeah a lot magnetic format of VHS and because that's pretty much I think it is just right now, it had a lot of things that you know you get too close to. Certain

00:31:01.110 - 00:31:23.310

media manages. Um it would erase the tape so uh you know um they're one of the branches um he was here in Harris County. It was early on and we had the H. S. You know, the video and we had the security system, there was a

00:31:23.310 - 00:31:49.760

process of advertising, dim advertising. And the team that did there was actually a saying you were supposed to put it on when you're doing uh that's an of the 8000, remember branch was doing it for Adam basically raised a doubtful of VHS tapes because they headed

00:31:49.760 - 00:32:16.200

on the wrong setting. Oh my gosh, he's and even if they're not here to those, That's a big gypsies. Um Okay. And looking towards the future, what do you think libraries will be like in the next 10-20 years? I think we'll be ever increasing um use

00:32:16.200 - 00:32:43.310

a digital formats and remote access to online resources. Digital resources. That that's where we Stephanie. And um as a rule is moving to these days um there were always books, there are, there are a lot of people, it's like, well why do we need libraries now?

00:32:43.310 - 00:33:03.750

Why do we need books? You can get everything online. Well no you can't. Yes you can. No you can't. And I think there's still, yeah I speak for to sit down with a book, physical book and read rather than to sit down with a um Well

00:33:03.760 - 00:33:24.610

I um advice and read it. I'm just land better. Uh huh. I I always remember items or right here in 1995 but it was one of the American Library Association, you know, always has a series of to lose. Um Yeah the library and put up similar

00:33:24.610 - 00:33:48.280

motivation or some of them are just keep library things This one said um libraries will get books better than books. Okay. Libraries can get you through times with no money better than get you through times of no library and I will always be true um because

00:33:48.280 - 00:34:16.150

there were there were probably millions of people who don't have personal resources. Yeah go out and I are get subscriptions to um measures even have the technology to access them. So I I firmly bleed. Well Still be the case in 10 to 20 years. I thought

00:34:16.550 - 00:34:36.210

I sorry, I didn't catch it. I think you're absolutely right. I think people who think that libraries are outdated don't quite have a full understanding of what libraries provide. Um We're not just buildings with books or so much got to do the death in here and

00:34:36.210 - 00:34:56.300

turn tables use and well soon. Yeah, great meeting with your own library degree. Um and you will be of the new generation of black curtains or use the libraries In 10 to 20 years. It's kind of hard to to say. I think what you were saying

00:34:56.300 - 00:35:19.020

about materials is definitely true. I feel that it kind of depends on how legislation and government handles certain social um social work and social services issues because increasingly public libraries have to fill that void. Um A lot of people get frustrated that we have people without

00:35:19.020 - 00:35:33.080

homes here. The library that that's because they literally have nowhere else to go. And the library is one of the few places less it seems in american society where you can exist without the expectation of spending any money. And so only our public library will open

00:35:33.080 - 00:35:50.900

to the public, but we're trying to balance the needs of very many different groups of people. Um and it can be difficult, but I think that that is something that will be determined by the increase of, you know, social services for individuals who need them. And

00:35:50.900 - 00:36:04.470

maybe libraries will become less of a hub for that. Or maybe will become more. But I think at the end of the day, it's always libraries will always be here. We will always be a place where people come and it doesn't matter why they come here,

00:36:04.470 - 00:36:17.490

they're going to come for a huge variety of different reasons. Um but they will be here and we'll be trying to serve them what they need. So I think at its core, I don't think the library will ever really change. I think it's how what will

00:36:17.490 - 00:36:36.940

change is how we do what we do. But I don't think what we do will change if that makes sense. So, and that's just public libraries, I don't have much experience in academic or medical or law libraries. Um I feel like essentially it's similar statement can

00:36:36.940 - 00:36:51.860

be said that they will all continue to do what they do, but how they do, it will be different. It might be that they rely more on to show resources because in those kinds of institutions you anticipate the people using them are part of that organization

00:36:51.860 - 00:37:13.830

and therefore have the technology and resources to access, you know, resources to the constant. Yeah. I think that libraries are essential. And I think they yes, because I don't know, reading and learning and um, seeking community, those are basic human drives. I don't think they are

00:37:13.840 - 00:37:42.150

going to disappear anytime soon. They haven't over several millennia. Really. Yeah. Yeah. So, and then a final question, father, if you could give any advice to future library staff or volunteer or support groups, what would it be dig deep? Yeah. Well, you know, I think, no,

00:37:42.150 - 00:38:03.330

your community, whoever you are fire users. And one thing that has always been true and I think it always will be true. Um, you know, don't forget who your community is. Don't forget why you are here. Um, you know, it was a struggle with me with

00:38:03.340 - 00:38:24.050

um, for the years, with absolute work and technical services because yeah, there are so many rules and whatnot that you have to follow. And it was bogged down in following the rules and probably thinking about how you doing what you were doing and you know, there

00:38:24.050 - 00:38:49.370

were cases in early library automation elsewhere. The software is not really sophisticated. And if you follow the rules explicitly in blogging, you can be the information in the catalog afterwards. And I had to sometimes I can demonstrate that too large. Especially were okay. Follow the rules.

00:38:49.380 - 00:39:02.110

You know, they get pretty basic and then they that's not what the rules say. Okay. All the rules. And then in a couple of days I would go back to the same. Do you find that? And I informed me in the catalog and they couldn't. Yeah.

00:39:02.120 - 00:39:20.310

Because I say, hey, that's why we see them all the rules. You have to know where it is incapable of mm hmm. And you you have to don't lose data while you're there. And what while you're doing what you're doing. You know, it's not about you,

00:39:20.310 - 00:39:41.590

so to speak. It's about customers observe however we're doing it. Um, and I yeah, that kind of goes with, you know, be flexible, you know, and be creative creativity services that have a lot more creativity especially program certainly than some other functions. But um, you know,

00:39:41.590 - 00:40:02.000

even if you don't work in public services, um, I think, you know what you're doing. And um, you know, is there a way that we can do things that would be better, you know, better serve those who are using our services are our online resources, our

00:40:02.010 - 00:40:22.390

catalogue or whatever. So, um, I guess that's about in the midst of the future. I know you have much more wisdom, but I think that's a good uh just perfect amount for this. Right Daddy. Well thank you so much for being a wonderful interview. He this

00:40:22.390 - 00:40:48.640

has been amazing and informative and I'm blessed by your presence. But yeah an antique. It was probably a little bit easier um doing it with you in the interview with you. Maybe then with other people. Um There is a democratic connections anyway. Alright uh graduated and

00:40:48.640 - 00:41:15.320

I respond to you ask me it out willing which you said the enthusiasm was underwhelming. Um It's been enjoyable. I'm very glad. Happy birthday. Um Public Library. It will be my mother's 100th birthday in october this year. Uh Oh um there are two milestones being any

00:41:15.320 - 00:41:24.640

old milestones will be reached in 2021. Yes. Happy birthday CPL and happy birthday grammy. I'll get him. Bye bye.